Season One Wrap-Up: Aurora + Kelly

Kelly Croce Sorg
Rachel, here you are at the table, you’re always doing the behind the scenes work. What’s it like to sit at the microphone,

Rachel Ishikawa
It’s pretty terrifying. But I’m really happy to be here and to process this last season with you both. So thank you for having me. And to start us off, I thought we could listen to some tape that I’ve pulled out. And so these are just a few of the highlights from this past season. So I’m just gonna go ahead and play the first clip.

Robin DiAngelo
I think that my voice is one voice. It’s one that is fairly consistently missing in the sense of white people being pushed to look at ourselves, right. So most white people think about race and race work and race education as learning from people of color. It’s very hard for us to see our own lives in racial terms. If you only listen to people of color, you won’t, you’ll get you of course, get some awareness. But you also have to have kind of someone who shares your identity challenge you. It’s a way harder to deny when I say it, because you know, and I know as we both experience it.

Rachel Ishikawa
So that of course was Robin D’Angelo, who was our first guest on the show, and is also the author of White Fragility. And now after this full season, I’m really curious about how this clip lands with you both.

Kelly Croce Sorg
I do remember, actually, in that point in the interview, I remember asking her the question, because I was curious, like, and where I was in, in my work, I’m like, you know, where you where do you go after you read your book? You know, what would I know what I did, but I don’t know what other people do or what you recommend people to do. And so I thought she was super diplomatic, and in a great way, you know, saying it’s all the things which I truly believe as well, I don’t think there’s just one. I mean, as much as I do get militant and excited and passionate about whatever the hell I’m into at the time. There are so many voices.

Aurora Archer
For all the listeners and all the family and friends and everybody out there. We love that about you.

Kelly Croce Sorg
Thank you. I receive that. And clearly, I had gone 38 years without really taking a deep dive into this until I read a book by a white woman. So I have to hand it to Robin and that she didn’t let me hide and all the places I could hide. She knew exactly where I was gonna go. So sometimes, I do really think that white women need to hear from white women, at least as an entry point, as least as a gateway drug to get you into like, the giant, you know, breaking of the system. When you can see yourself in somebody else. You can hit home, harder and faster.

Aurora Archer
Bingo. So I wholeheartedly agree with Robin. I think that white women need to hear from other white women, period, end of story. It’s the reason why I bought 30 copies of the book, because as much as I had been having that conversation with all of my white girlfriends. I was not heard. And reading that book, forced many not all but for many of my white girlfriends was literally the first time that they got it, that they saw that they understood their role in this matrix of white supremacy, and that they started their path towards doing the work and taking accountability for their self reflection. Huge, and no amount of me talking to them for 20-30 years could do what in two days of reading Robins book could do? Because it came from a white voice and a white experience of white supremacy. One of the biggest questions or consistent questions that we have received is, well, why are we always talking to white people and white scholars or white thought leaders in the space of race, when we have a plethora of brown and black authors, activists thought leaders that have enormous bodies of work around this topic of race, white supremacy, etc. And I get it, I absolutely and totally get it with every cell of my body, trust me. But what I have also come to understand that this is not the first time we’re having this conversation about race. And somehow, a white voice articulating the accountability, the experience, the understanding of racism is heard. Bottom line.

Rachel Ishikawa
So I want to play you the next piece of tape.

Erica Bleznak
I noticed my own inherent jealousy over the sisterhood of women of color, and the connection that they have with one another. Yeah, it’s pretty profound. And the more I see that, the more I’ve seen inside of myself that I yearn for that (longing to belong). Yeah.

Rachel Ishikawa
Do you both remember that one?

Aurora Archer
That’s Erica Bleznk our yogi, our teacher and our guide. And she was in our 10,000 white women episode.

Rachel Ishikawa
Exactly. So Erica, in this moment was comparing white women to women of color. And the conversation before this was all about how white women tend to be hyper critical of themselves and other women that they’re interacting with. How does that how does that make you feel?

Aurora Archer
You know, so when, when Erica shared that I think she was spot on, right? You know, it’s the way I show up in rooms. It’s the way that I built relationships with all of my sisters of color. And it’s something I’m quite intentional about. When I walk into rooms, and I see women or people of color, there’s an instant connection, there’s an instant I see you. It was actually very new to me to understand the level of separation that white people, specifically white women have with each other. And it gave me such an understanding where it’s like, if you’re, if y’all are not having love for each other, then yourare not going to have love for me. And so I got, you know, what Erika was saying in that moment, where, you know, she expressed it as jealousy, towards the sisterhood that she sees and has witnessed among women of color. I don’t know that I would use that word, because what I think she’s expressing is a longing, and a wanting of having a similar connection across white women, this true sisterhood, as she has witnessed and observed among women of color, specifically black women, because I think black women, we just magical. We just so magical.

Kelly Croce Sorg
Yeah, and again, that’s, it’s all part of the white supremacy machine. We’ve been trained for a long time, you know, that. That level of intimacy and connection. We lost that a long time ago to some degree. And so for Erica to see it. In present day, in a group of people. I see that too where I’m like, this can happen like this, this, I would love this. Why is this not the way my neighbors and I greet each other the way my coworkers and I greet each other? That’s absolutely not what happens. You have to go out of your way. You have to, you know, force yourself out of the matrix to say hello to someone and they might kind of be like, Why is she saying hi to me like that? But yeah, there’s just a level of intimacy there that we might have for our best, best best friends and family, but we don’t extend it out to all white women, that’s that’s for sure. And sad.

Aurora Archer
It is. I have to tell you, Kelly, I think that the I find that level of separation… It breaks my heart.

Rachel Ishikawa
And for our final piece of tape, I want to play something a little bit different. This one is from Seth Berger. He appeared on Episode Four.

Seth Berger
Are you motherfucking crazy. You are two freshmen in college, young black males driving high in an area where in five years, my wife was stopped 10 times and given nine tickets, and I would stop 10 times and given one, and you’re going to jeopardize your entire future. So you could get high, drive and then run into the one cop that wants to ruin your fucking life.

Aurora Archer
Yes, I remember that episode. Loud and clear. I think I have a couple of observations about that episode, one, which is really personal. And a bit sad when I think about it. I remember as a child – wow – this is gonna make me emotional. I remember as a child, my dad always wanted to have a son. And it was just my sister and I. And my mother, after I was born was very adamant. She was not having any more children. And I think a huge part of why she was very conscious about that choice was yes, a of course, because we were dirt poor and no need to bring in more poor children, I think was part of her thought process. But I think she was scared. I think my mother was so scared, particularly about having a black son, not because she wouldn’t love that son, or we wouldn’t be able to provide for that son. Because I know she would both my parents would have found a way. But I think that the worry that she had and experienced every day with my father, and with us. I think she was so afraid and scared to have that her heart broken in a way that I think she felt she couldn’t she wouldn’t be able to piece it back together. And so that’s what I that’s what I thought of what I listened to Seth’s story because it rang so true. And then secondly, what I was grateful for is that we heard so much feedback, particularly from white men, after Seth’s episode aired, that it was the first time that they understood, it was the first time that they got the notion of how brown and black bodies are impacted and truly are hanging on a lifeline that is predominantly determined by white people.

Kelly Croce Sorg
Yeah, I mean, listening to Seth made me think this is a difference between raising men and raising boys. I think so often there’s no say so often, but I’ve witnessed a lot of privileged white boys get away with a lot. Some are even on the news right now as as people giving the news. And, and it’s just, it makes me look more multi-dimensional in the raising of my sons. That we’re not just saying don’t do this because it’s not, you know, you’ll get caught. It’s like, you need to look out for your friends. And you need to act like a man and you need to act like an like a like a mature person making good choices for himself. Not just like, Don’t get caught.

Rachel Ishikawa
Why do you think that this episode Kelly was so popular this particular episode?

Kelly Croce Sorg
I think it was coming off the heels of a few women so all of a sudden when a white male who has succeeded, quote unquote, in in business and in life and was making decisions based on what he wanted to do, regardless of what his family thought, but what his heart wanted. I think that kind of like just like white women like to hear from white women or might maybe understand that or hearing from white women. I think white men need to hear from white men that and be a fly on their wall and hear what they had to go through and then on the other side say and I’m all the better for it. Slash and I have all this scary shit. I have to tell my sons now that I never had to be told as a kid. And give people that window in and crack open their heart and their mind a little bit to think like, oh, that’s I never would have thought of that. I never had to think of that.

Aurora Archer
And it goes back again. Right? It goes back to the point, people can hear and or relate to a story, when the vessel who’s sharing it with them looks like them.

Kelly Croce Sorg
Well, can’t you empathize with that a little bit? Wouldn’t you rather hear from a black or Latina woman than some white, male or female preaching at you,

Aurora Archer
so I can empathize with Kelly, but I don’t, I don’t tend to get that choice. Right? Nine times out of 10. I’m working walking around in a world where the majority of the voices, the majority of the vessels that I hear, actually look nothing like me. I yearn to hear it from someone like me. And it’s actually one of the reasons why I understand that my role in whatever small, large or non existent platform I have, is so critical. Because I know that every single day, my sheer existence is modeling for someone out there, who remotely looks like me – a connection and an understanding. And I think the difference is that I am acutely aware of that.

Kelly Croce Sorg
Correct. We are very unaware of most things. Yeah. I say we, because I just speak for every white person, every white person United States, hope you’re aware that I’m representing you. You’re welcome. And I’m sorry. I love you, but we’re clueless.

Rachel Ishikawa
So we have heard from such an array of voices this season. And I’m really curious about what folks have been saying, what feedback have you all been getting?

Aurora Archer
We’ve gotten a lot of feedback. But we love feedback, don’t we Kelly?

Kelly Croce Sorg
We do and I would like more? Yeah, so let’s pull out a couple of our faves. So we got a response saying

Rachel Ishikawa
[Reading] “Great new podcast at a time when these questions and voices are needed most. But rarely do I or many of us engage in similar conversations with our families and our close friends. I’m talking to white people over here. And if you are already scoffing and telling yourself that you are not like that, that you are self aware, if the thought but I have black friends has ever entered your mind, you probably need to listen more than anyone.”

Kelly Croce Sorg
I love this.

Aurora Archer
Yeah, that one was a good one. And so spot on. So another listener wrote in about her aunt, who she said is listening to our show.

Rachel Ishikawa
[Reading] “My aunt said it’s hard. But she realized she actually doesn’t have any black slash Latino friends, which she didn’t even realize before.”

Aurora Archer
Amen. She looked around the room and saw none of us were there. I love it. I think it’s great.

Kelly Croce Sorg
Yeah, I think it’s really important for people to see who’s missing. Absolutely.

Rachel Ishikawa
Yeah, it’s awesome that you’re getting this really amazing feedback. But I know this can’t all be rainbows and roses. What kind of critical feedback have you received,

Kelly Croce Sorg
I got two different white men who I have close relationships with separately, be very bothered by our stating of our pronouns. And I was like, Hmm, now if I was quicker on my feet, I would have liked to have said, so it made you feel uncomfortable for them to say yes. And for me to say You’re welcome. Because that’s the point of the show, right? So I kind of sat with that. Like, here we are talking about white supremacy, but you’re bothered when I say she and her. One kind of wanted me to define it more. And the other one was like, I just don’t think you should do that. I was like, well, then that’s all the more reason why we probably should. I’m like we did describe why we do it in Seth’s episode when we didn’t ask Seth because he asked us what it meant. And then we also are doing we did a full show on it with Jaden.

Aurora Archer
So yeah, and I think that’s actually goes into the other part of the feedback that we’ve gotten is I think, although we have been very intentional about trying to take a very step by step approach. Some folks have still feld lost, and some folks have still wanted, or have requested for us to provide them with greater definition or a deeper dive into some of the language or, or concepts that we shared during the episodes.

Kelly Croce Sorg
We’re definitely taking all this feedback into account. Yeah, I don’t want to sound flippant?

Aurora Archer
No. And I think it’s, I think it’s very, I think it’s very good. You know, there’s a part of me that says, that’s, that’s exactly what we want to do we want you know, if you haven’t heard some of these concepts before, you haven’t heard some of these words, very good. Very good. This is why – one – we asked you to go on Google and Google it. And then we are also proactively being much more mindful, because we did hear that feedback. And if you guys have noticed, in a lot of our social channels, we’re actually choosing a word at times to define and give greater context to.

Kelly Croce Sorg
And that’s one of our, our goals for the new year is to blow out a great glossary and resource list on our website.

Aurora Archer
Because at the end of the day, it’s about learning, it’s about sharing knowledge, so that we can all uplift each other’s understanding.

Rachel Ishikawa
So reflecting on the positives and the negatives, what are your podcast New Year’s resolutions moving forward?

Kelly Croce Sorg
I would like to call them New Year’s revolutions. Yes. I love that. A revolution in the meaning of fundamental change in the way of thinking about or visualizing something. So for this new year, we’re envisioning intergenerational wisdom, how we’re passing it on generations after us what we are passing on, what that impact – is it positive, is it negative. What has the impact been? What’s our intergenerational wisdom that we’ve gotten what’s, what’s the intergenerational wisdom that Aurora has gotten versus myself physically, mentally, emotionally? Between Aurora and I, we are two immediate families span from ages nine to 91. So there’s eight decades of life that we’re interacting with at any given time,

Aurora Archer
That’s a whole lot of love. That’s a whole lot of special.

Kelly Croce Sorg
That’s a whole lot. Yeah, we’re going into workplaces where there’s five generations working together at a given time. And with the rate of speed of technology the last 50 years. I just think there’s so much there.

Aurora Archer
There is there is, and I have to say I love New Year revolution. I’m gonna go a little bit akin to my branding, would get a little bit esoteric here for a second. You know, what I’m wishing for, is for us to be of greater service. I think we’re heading into an incredible year 2020. I think it’s going to come with a flood of magic, a flood of new beginnings, new everything. But I also think it’s going to be hard. And I want to see this conversation, this gift that we are sharing with the world, with everyone out there to be a place of flight, to be a place of understanding, to be a place of no shame, to be a place where we connect. And my hope, my wish my prayer is that we can be that ripple within the sea of a whole lot of crazy in 2020.

Kelly Croce Sorg
Yeah, it’s going to be a lot of tumult. And I think my one of my New Year’s revolutions would be equanimity. I want to be peaceful during opposing forces. While all of us aligned towards freedom and liberation for ourselves and for our hearts and our minds and to be all together in it.

Aurora Archer
And I love what you were saying earlier, Kelly, I think it’s the it’s holding the vision of what we’re moving towards, from a place of peace, love and positivity. Versus what are we fighting against?

Kelly Croce Sorg
Yeah, I don’t want to be anti anything. No, I want to be for freedom and for peace and for love.

Aurora Archer
That’s it. The revolution is love. So, girlfriend, girlfriend, that’s a wrap. Can you believe it?

Kelly Croce Sorg
Wow. Yeah.

Aurora Archer
So this is the end of season one, but we will be back very soon.

Kelly Croce Sorg
Stay tuned for season two after the New Year. Happy 2020

Aurora Archer
We need to change and that’s why you’re here. That’s why you stick through these conversations as hard as they may be, and continue to challenge your communities to think bigger. We’re here for liberation.

Kelly Croce Sorg
We know you know how important this work is, and we want to keep doing it. However we need your support, you can pledge your contribution to our Patreon Venmo PayPal, all the links are at our website theopt inpodcast.com

Aurora Archer
music for this episode is brought to you by Philly’s owe, Jordan McCree.

Rachel Ishikawa
And The Opt-In is produced by me, Rachel Ishikawa.

Kelly Croce Sorg
Have a safe holiday. We love you.

Aurora Archer
We love you tons.