Season 2 Wrap Up: The 10,000 White Women Return

Aurora: Ladies, can you introduce yourselves, please?

Erica: I’m Erica Taxin Bleznak. I go by she her hers.

Lisa: And I’m Lisa Lord and I go by she her hers.

Kelly: A.k.a. two of the 10000 white women. Yes. So you probably remember Erica and Lisa from last season. They’re both our dear friends and collaborators, co-creators. And we couldn’t be more excited to talk with them today because Erica and Lisa are such amazing examples of growth. You both are on such extraordinary journeys and we want to share that.

Aurora: We absolutely do. And before we jump in, I’m going to actually ask Erica and be set to tell us a little bit about what you do for those folks who may not remember from season one.

Erica: So I’m Erica Taxin Bleznak and I’ve been teaching yoga for about 24 years and I own mainline yoga shalla, which is on the main line in Philadelphia.

Lisa: And I’m Lisa Lord. I spent most of my career in human resources left to start my own business. I do leadership development and executive coaching. And this past year, a lot of work in diversity and inclusion.

Aurora: Excellent. Excellent. So as you ladies know, this season we’ve been talking all about intergenerational wisdom. And so today we want to talk about what that means, the passing on of truth, the passing on of wisdom and the passing on of information.

Kelly: Exactly. So I want to start by talking about Nilloferr for Merchant. Let’s listen to some tape from our interview. This is Nilofer talking about how she arrived at this idea of onlyness, which is really about owning your own unique perspective and vision.

Aurora: OK, so someone who’s that and many of those rooms for over 25 years having thoughts, ideas, contributions overlooked, I’d love to ask you, Lisa, because you’ve built an incredible career in H.R. and I’m just curious do you see how that onlyness, like the special sauce, the special perspective, the different point of view, the broader aperture that people of diverse backgrounds have and how they could bring that to how companies are trying to solve problems and how nine times out of ten, it’s actually not what is sort of enlisted or viewed as possible.

Lisa: Yeah, I can see it now. But I can tell you as a white woman who spent all that time in corporate America, I did not see it. Then it was more I knew having different inputs was beneficial for business. So I knew that. But I didn’t understand another human being’s reality. And I was missing that information. So today when I talk to organizations and today when they bring me in to talk about diversity and inclusion, I don’t talk about that. All the research shows diversity is good for business, just like all the research shows. You should have women on your board of directors. That’s just meaningless numbers in the background. What I talk about now is can you imagine how difficult it is for somebody to raise an idea that differs from yours? What are you doing to make that more possible? How are you creating a psychological safety net so that what ever gets raised is at least considered? And if you don’t create that net, these people who don’t feel safe, you’re going to miss out on every thing they have to offer. So it comes now for me from this hip place of humanity and no longer from a place of business performance and productivity. And the true irony is it’s so much better for business when you come from humanity.

But really recognizing humans and making it safe for humans to be human. No matter what package they come in. And frankly, there’s no two that are alike anyhow, letting their only miss come out and be and exist. Whether you agree with it or not. It’s irrelevant just letting it be safe so that it can come out. All the research shows that’s worthy innovation. That’s where the advances come. It’s also where conflict comes. There’s a lot more conflict when we see one another’s own leanness because we see it differently. Conflict is a bad conflict, just as something that you have to get through to get to a better answer on the other side.

Kelly: Touching on all the white supremacist cultural characteristics, Lisa. And it reminds me actually of there’s been a couple occasions where, you know, I’ve been at an event and I’ve been one of the only white women there. And I kind of go back in my brain of where I used to be, like spray tanned, like all my friends and then like blonde-ish hair, like all my friends. And we would be the next like facial or whatever skin, youth and then we would do the goop recipe and you kind of all in the same realm of sameness. And when I found myself in a room of black women, I was like in all and awestruck by the spectacular spectrum of uniqueness. I mean from hair to outfit to personalities, shoes to bag and how each person was so different from the next. And I was like, I turned to you and I was like, we all try to look the same.

Aurora: IAnd we love being ourselves and we love hyping others that are being themselves. Because, like, you walk into that room, Kelly and every single girlfriend’s like, ” GIRL…”

Kelly: Yeah. Yeah, that’s that was like super eye-opening for me the first time anyway. Now now I I’m looking for it. Mm hmm.

Lisa: It’s really uncomfortable for white women at work to be there only to let their onlyness show.

Kelly: I would say white men, too.

Lisa: Yeah, probably white men, too. In fact that’s a question we always ask in the trainings that I do. What are you covering? Because everybody’s covering something that they don’t want people to see. And until you’re doing work on your self, you don’t even you may not even realize you’re covered when.

Aurora: And I just want to say. So if you think about that, Lisa, right that as a white woman, you feel comfortable being yourself. So I want to remind you what Kelly was talking about is walking into a room that is predominantly women of color, black women, and that is a safe place where we can show up and be exactly who we are. There is no way that corporate America was able or making space, at least for me and many of the women and men that I know to show up and being to be exactly who we were.

Lisa: Yeah, it’s still a problem. It’s a significant problem.

Aurora: Mm hmm. So we’re going to move on to our next nugget of wisdom. And this is a nugget from the amazing Michelle C. Johnson, who is a yoga teacher among many, many things. And so let’s listen back to a piece of our interview with Michelle and the wisdom she threw down.

Kelly: All eyes on you, Yogi. Erica, as a yoga instructor, what has been your journey like towards and teaching about liberation and how has that evolved over the years?

Erica: My own journey for liberation, I would say, is not unusual as other people who are white and their journey of liberation in the yoga world, in their spiritual world. My original journey of liberation was really rooted in these amorphous spiritual concepts that I learned that were very much inundated with a lot of lines, like we’re all one. 

And as many other yogis, what I realized was I was just as unhappy and confused as I had always been, but had a lot of sort of these affirmations that I would sort of spit out in my teaching. How that has shifted for me is about developing the capacity to hold space for myself to see what is actually true. And I think that that is at the root of the yoga practice itself, that until we’re able to foster a practice where we can turn within and really reflect in an honest and open way, not necessarily on the lighter, as they’re called, aspects of ourself, but become more curious and interested in the aspects of ourself that are relegated often to the shadow. And for me, that has been the great transformation on my path to liberation, one that is not very appealing to most people because for most people, they are not interested in looking in the corners and crevices of their beingness and seeing what lays there and what is sort of orchestrating their lives. So that is how my journey has shifted. Unfortunately, as Michelle sort of pointed out, I don’t think that that has been a widespread movement in the yoga community by any means. People are more interested on their own individual freedom and happiness and missing the point that it’s intrinsically tied to everybody’s freedom and happiness, and that until there is liberation of all beings, that there is an aspect of ourself that will remain bound. No matter how much work I do, no matter how much I even look at the darker aspects of my own beingness, I can only go so far. We are all tied together. And so my personal freedom is very much wrapped up in not just are people of color free, but really truly are other people who are white willing to do this work. And if they’re not, then I am in bondage as well.

Aurora: That was deep. Because I think that that. I love you pointing out. That notion of your liberation as a white woman is, yes, intrinsically linked to those of us of color, but it is also intrinsically linked to other white people who are not even aware.

Erica: Yes. And I think that also, if we’re talking about the yoga community at large.

Something that I’ve been speaking out a little bit about, we have all these rules and regulations about how we can become a certified yoga teacher. We have to train for 200 hours. You know, there’s no mandates that any of issues around racism or bias or unconscious bias have to be a part of a curriculum for yoga teachers, which is bizarre to me. I mean, if we have to learn about how to teach other human beings, how can we just leave this out of it and not be a requirement in order to serve people?

Kelly: Yeah, it’s so many visions going through my head when you were talking, Erica and I was picturing like Indian men, you know, a thousand years ago doing all these just like insane poses and putting themselves in these very difficult and contorted positions in order to have something brush up against whatever was inside of them. Yes. And we just listen to this interview with Misty Copeland. And I said dancers are great sufferers because they can look really beautiful on the outside. And as a dancer, growing up and then moving on to yoga was very easy to not brush up against any of my shit. But when I work it on my own inherent racism, it flares up everything and I realize that this work is my yoga and that then going back into those poses has a different weight and a different purpose.

Erica: Yeah. Yeah. I think that really when I’m teaching yoga, what I am hoping to do is to allow people to build their capacity for discomfort. That’s really what it is like. Can you experience discomfort? And in that moment, not retreat from it, but be willing to stay present to it and be curious about -.

Kelly: What’s there.

Erica: What’s there? What’s making me feel uncomfortable? I’m interested in this. What’s my go to? Right.

White people are not taught that capacity. People of color have been living that capacity for their entire life out of necessity. Can I also just say, the yoga world is I think, trying to make some effort in this arena, but I think it’s coming from a very wrong place. In the sese that the other day I was reading of an organization that named 10 of the best black yogis. And the moment I read it. And probably because of the work that you guys have allowed me to sort of be a part of. I was like, why can’t they just be ten amazing yogis? Do we have to actually point out that they are black yogis? I mean, they’re 10 amazing yoga teachers. And I just find that interesting that in some way they’re being separated out as though they’re they’re a great yoga teachers and they’re black. And it suddenly it just really hit me in a very interesting way.

Kelly: Yeah, because me part of me wants to say like hell, yeah, because how many black yoga teachers do you come across, you know, in the grand scheme of things? So it’s like part me wants to say, like, yes, black, please. Yes. And then the other part of me wants to say, like, just show them.

Aurora: Because, you know, when Erica and I were talking about this, so what would the headline be?

Erica: Ten great white yoga.

Kelly: Ten great white yoga.

Aurora: I mean, really? 

Erica: Yeah, it was funny, when I was listening to Michele’s interview, I kept thinking. What she is talking about, her themes of her talk – for any yogis out there, anyone who else has read the Bhagavad Gita – I was like, this woman is talking about the same themes that we find in ancient texts like the Bhagavad Gita. If we look at it, it’s about confronting things and being willing to basically look head on and not turn away. And I was thinking, you know, we require like the Bhagavad Gita for our yoga teachers to read. Like we should be requiring that people, for example, read her book. Like, how can we not? I mean, we’re talking about modern times, like. And it’s the same themes, but she’s has the ability to bring it into our current experience.

Kelly: Yeah,

Aurora: Let’s look at what the real history was, yeah, let’s talk let’s let’s sit with the discomfort of what really happened to the Native Americans. Let’s talk about what really happened in the, you know, since the beginning of time, from slavery onto Jim Crow, on to segregation. Civil rights movement, to what we’re we’re going to sort of play a clip now from Heather McGhee, where she was just a powerhouse and loved this interview on so many levels, but really the realistic articulation around our history and sitting with the discomfort of its implications.

Kelly: Who who who doesn’t think of this of what she’s said since they’ve listened to it on a weekly or daily basis? Because I do.

Aurora: Yeah. She threw down some gems and she threw down an incredible picture, a real picture of this America. And so the question, you know, we got lots of questions from our listeners on this episode, which we were thrilled to hear. So please keep the questions coming. But we’d love to ask you..

Kelly: Me?

Aurora: Yes. Kelly, we’d like to ask you so, Kelly, how did Heather’s episode and what she shared shift or keep the same, your perception of the American dream.

Kelly: You know, it’s so funny now that I think about it when we first did her episode. I was afraid of the only person hearing it as it was told for the first time. And so many people of all different colors were like, she laid it out for me. And I agree.And what I come to realize, is that where I thought I was special, really special sitting in this chair in this house right now is that I am a direct result of history. That my grandfather was able to get his job, was able to move them from here to there, that my dad was able to go to school, that he was able to get set degrees set, get said job, get said loan to start said business. I mean, it all maps out. And my dad used to say, you know, if it all goes to shit, I’ll just mow lawns. And I was like, yeah, he could totally do that. You know? And he could totally do that. Yeah, because people would let him mow their lawn and they would pay him for it and he could buy a truck. And all of these things could happen in order for that to happen. And now – and I actually see and feel now why I feel some sort of pain in financial areas or why I have noticed friends or jobs or, you know, hourly rates and and the math wasn’t computing more recently. And like some of this, something doesn’t add up. Something’s not adding up. Some people must be feeling much more pain than I am feeling. And this is hard as it is. And she just set all the pins up and knocked them down. How did you guys feel?

Lisa: So I felt like she was reiterating a story I’m exposed to on a daily basis, living in Philadelphia and managing through the corridors of North Philly and that, you know, in order just to come to and from my house and I she really just put it all so concisely together. I remember living in a house onceand I didn’t love it because I had to drive through a bad neighborhood to get there. And then I finally got a house on the main line where where ever I drove, I didn’t have to pass anything ugly to get there. And my partner said, are you really willing to live in the city? And when I said, yes, I really want to live in the city. I didn’t realize how much I saw that was, I called it ugly because I didn’t want to see it. And he kept opening my eyes to it. And today, I can find the beauty and the incredible loss and grief for the people who didn’t have the opportunities that I had. And yet I had this privileged. I could just close my eyes to it and live in my little bubble. And I’m really very grateful that now I’m confronted with it on a regular basis. And as soon as you open yourself to learning more about the injustices that exist, it’s there’s so much information out there. I can’t go to a single event without learning more. But the way Heather said it made sense to me, the girl who wanted to avoid the ugly. And I said earlier in the day to these guys that I wish Heather were running with Joe Biden for president, because I want someone who can make that point clear to those of us who just want to hide from the ugly reality of the past that has given us so much more and taken so much away from others.

Kelly: Yeah, it’s amazing. Can we just stay with ugly for a second and go there – just to go down that rabbit hole down a bit?

Lisa: Yeah. What do I mean by how I saw it as ugly?

Kelly: Or felt it.

Lisa: Or felt it. It’s that instinct of, oh maybe I’m not safe here or these houses look nice, but there’s so there’s so many boarded up windows or there’s trash on the street. And when I first would see that in the city, I remember thinking, oh someone should clean that up. This is awful. This is disgusting. And now it’s not blocking my view to see the poor family who is so grateful that at least the roof is still on their head because they can’t possibly afford the taxes that my landlord’s paying in the part of Philadelphia I live in and I can talk to my neighbor on the street and understand the deficits that they’ve had.

Lisa: I am not proud of that this is – what’s coming out of me right now. But it’s the honest to goodness truth. I was so privileged. I just wanted to look away from it.

Erica: And I also think it’s important. You know, I was. I paid attention when Lisa was talking about the trash on the ground. And to really understand well, it’s not just that people don’t clean up after themselves. It’s tha they do not send cleaning – street cleaners in yeah, to those areas to clean them up. Why are there are their boards up on the house. Well, because there’s landlords who typically do not even live in that neighborhood, who are typically not people of color, who are not taking care and doing their their due diligence and duty as landlords. And these people have nowhere to turn to because no one’s listening to them. So it’s like you go the step below that to understand, well, why is this happening? Because if you’ve ever been in an affluent neighborhood after a sporting event, it’s disgusting. OK, there’s trash all over the place. The bathrooms are hellacious. But the moment that event’s done, someone sweeps in and cleans it up really pristine because someone’s paying attention, because the money is there, because there’s white people at the event and white people who live in the area. So we have to like look below, like what’s actually happening.

Erica: I wanted to say something about the American dream. Is that okay?

Kelly: Yeah. Yeah.

Erica: I grew up as a child of immigrants from Jewish ancestry, of immigrants who immigrated into this country, and what the American dream for me was instilled that we are we are even different than other white people here because we were Jewish. Part of our family came from the Holocaust. We entered this country. We were put in neighborhoods that were really impoverished. But we worked really hard and we got to where we are. So why can’t everybody else do that? It’s such an interesting thing because that the way in which I feel like the Jewish community has abandoned in many ways the ways in which they can actually find a commonality with people of color. And it’s that gap has widened tremendously. And so I’ve been a product of that and I’ve seen that perpetuated. Look what happened to us. But we were able to persevere. And that’s something I’ve really been unpacking for myself. How that’s been sort of, in my own experience, colored my lens of how I see people of color and even other immigrants like we did it. In fact, you know, like a million people got killed. So how come you’re not doing it? So I just wanted to bring that up because I think that’s an important area that.

Thank you so much for sharing that, Erica. Because you know, I think that that tends to be a pervasive story headlined byline of European descent immigrants. And the notion of, well, we did it, why can’t you? And as the daughter of a brown Mexican mother and an African-American dad and as Heather told us, because the chips are not the chips are stacked against you. And I often say to mentees, the fact that you were either in this graduate institution, this prestigious graduate institution, or that you are in this corporate Fortune 100 or 500 structure that you have been able to literally cross barbed wire glass, obstacle after obstacle after obstacle. Because if anyone thinks after hearing Heather’s succinct articulation of the reality of our history, there is no even playing field, not for brown and black people.

And also, I don’t know how we fell into this comparing of sufferings. Yeah. Like, seriously? I mean, and and how futile that is and how actually, it’s a distraction. It’s like, let’s just stop, OK, for a moment.

Aurora: Mm hmm. You know, it’s very true. Wow.

Kelly: Mm hmm. So last but certainly not least, we have to talk about Due Quach. She has this concept of Brain 1.0 2.0 3.0.

Aurora: Yeah, 3.0.

Kelly: Even when she’s saying brain 2.0 in describing right, then I was like, that’s how I was like all morning back in retrospect.

Aurora: I just I think here the question for all of us is. When have you noticed yourself being in either 1.0, 2.0 or 3.0, and I’m looking at Erica -.

Erica: Cause to you know.

Aurora: I know she knows. I remember one of the last transitions is this when I left corporate America and decided to become an entrepreneur. I remember walking into Erica’s yoga studio and boy, was I in 1.0. She so it’s because every time I say to her, can you remember when I walked in? She just you know, her guys. Yeah. She eyes go big and she’s like, oh, yeah. I so remember.

Erica: Traumatized

Aurora: Yeah.

Erica: That’s really how I could describe it. You were traumatized and. Yeah. You look like a deer in the headlights, like you said. You know, you just look like you had been completely traumatized.

Aurora: Yeah. Yeah. And. And I’m I’m extremely grateful for the space, the sanctuary, the movement. The honoring and seeing that you created for me and that you create for so many every day. Cause you were an extremely helpful guide to moving out of 1.0 for me during that transition. So thank you.

Erica: You’re welcome.

Kelly: I think I’ve already mentioned a little bit of my 2.0 and competitiveness with other white women, but I kind of think my one point oh falls terribly in the lines of, well, why are they doing this? And anger and like this very task masking, demanding and angry entitled little bitch is really like my 1.0. Aurora is nodding.

Lisa: I loved the way she differentiated like that and I know I can think of so many occasions when I was in 1.0 and it usually sounded like blame. I was assigning blame elsewhere and it shows up over and over again. But the only answer out of it was 2.0 because 2.0 got me over 1.0. And so I loved the way she differentiated that. But 3.0 I said earlier, it’s like learning a new language. And so when I’m around people who speak that language like I get to be when I’m around, when the four of us are together, I love that because then I can stay in 3.0. But as soon as I’m not immersed in that, finding 3.0 on a regular basis can be really challenging. And yes, meditation helps. And yes, there are things that helped me get there. But knowing that there’s a name for it somehow made it so much more attainable. Like the name I’d heard through spiritual teachings was enlightenment. And I’m like, well, that seems like something I’m never gonna get a loft like. Well, thanks a lot, you know, but 3.0. Oh like I can do version 3.0, right. I’m – I could get an upgrade. I can do that.

Aurora: She’s amazing. She’s absolutely amazing. So, Erica I’d love for you to share your story as a yoga studio owner, you see it’s walking in in 1.0, 2.0.

Erica: You know, really, it’s funny. I was just talking about this the other day. I had a yoga teacher who had a student very upset after class who didn’t really enjoy her class and sort of, as you know, just, you know, verbally, just like couldn’t stop 1.0-ing. And the teacher is very upset. And I said to her, you know, what I’m realizing lately is most people just want to be seen and heard. And that’s been a big theme for me lately, even for myself when I’m in the 1.0. I realize I just want to be seen and heard. I don’t even need anyone to respond to me. But I feel like there’s such a disconnection, you know, and I was thinking about what Kelly was saying about the competitiveness. And I see competitiveness and doing this as not being actually separate things. They’re both things in order to move us away from our from something, whatever it is, something that’s uncomfortable or something we don’t want to feel or experience in the moment. And so I’m doing this competitiveness. All those things are where we’re trying to get meaning out of things where we’ll never get meaning. Right. And so much of meaning, I think, for all of us is just to be seen and to be listened to. 

Kelly: I just don’t want to jip on 3.0 because sometimes I feel like it’s so easy to talk about 1.0 and 2.0. One of my meditation teacher, Caverly Morgan, who we were had last season. Her my favorite shortcut. Because I don’t take the time and space to meditate every day, but the fastest meditation and I hate to say hack, but is taking the three deepest breaths that you’ve taken yet today. It’s amazing how long that can even take me to do in full. But like, what a reset that is. Because you do 0 it is hard when you’re there, when you’re in either 1.0 or 2.0 to quickly get yourself out of it again can take me days.

Erica: For sure. And I think, you know, it’s interesting, as someone who lived with an enormous amount of clinical depression and anxiety for many, many years, like the three deep breaths would I’ve even found really powerful if you just put your hands on your heart, something miraculous happens. It’s such a powerful gesture and it brings you right back to this center space inside of yourself. There’s something really powerful about that. And so simple. There’s something really calming about holding our own heart and feeling ourself to that, I think like the three deep breaths, it’s sort of like this beautiful, easy hack that we have.

Aurora: I love that. Thank you.

Kelly: It’s been such an honor not only to be on this journey of life with you guys, with you ladies, but just to process all of this today and talk about the season. We are so thankful, so grateful that you agreed to go with us to come back.

Aurora: And I’m actually before we let you before we we part ways, I would love to ask, you know, a year ago, almost a year ago, when we started this journey, we asked you to articulate what would be your opt in moment or what would be your opt in ask of our listeners. And or I can be more specific. What would be your opt in moment in this year, 2020 for white women?

Erica: My opt in ask, which is something that I am trying to do as well, is the moment I’m feeling uncomfortable with something to turn towards it with love and curiosity and really open arms.

Erica: God, I like that one. My opt in ask – it’s calling it out. And being that person who says, OK, well, let’s open an opportunity for somebody else and making sure that the conversation is happening by being willing to tell people, look, I made all these mistakes and I can do better, I can be better, and I’m going to show you. So I’m opting in to showing them instead of just doing my work in private.

Kelly: Can I add one?

Aurora: Yes, absolutely.

Kelly: I really like Gaby Bernstein’s Choose Again mantra, and she’s talking about how our thoughts become beliefs. Yes. And that some and so some of our thoughts are not so good, so some of our beliefs are not so good. And when we’re looking at those thoughts to forgive ourselves for having the thought. And then to choose again. Mm hmm. Because, you know, as we said, with the white supremacy, cultural characteristics and perfectionism, sometimes we don’t go there because we don’t we don’t want to show that mistake. We don’t want to show mistakes. And so I think choosing again is a different way of looking at that.

Aurora: That’s nice. Well, I’m going to share that I appreciate all three of you continuing to opt in. It’s a journey. It’s not a destination. And thank you all for continuing to have the courage to step in to the discomfort. To show up, to talk, to excavate, and to grow. Thank you.

Kelly: Thank you.

Aurora: And to all our listeners. Thank you so much for such a beautiful, beautiful season. We love every one of you. And we will be back soon with Season 3.

Kelly: Well, music for this episode is by Jordan McCree and the opt in is produced by Rachel Ishikawa. By everybody. We love you all. Thank you so much. 

Kelly: Thank you all for being here and learning and growing with us. We’re so looking forward to a creative and meaningful Season 3 of the Opt-In. Until then, stay in touch. Find us on the socials @theoptin.